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Ionantha reference (registered)

#21 User is offline   greenhorn 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 05:39 AM

ionantha does have a habit of changing its form when grown in different locations.
Sometimes ionantha peanut "open up" instead of looking pointed when grown locally over some time. peanut offspring also has this tendency.
ionantha rosita loses it beautiful fine leaves form after a while.
but they are all still nice.

This post has been edited by greenhorn: 07 January 2010 - 12:41 PM

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#22 User is offline   benetay 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 10:27 AM

GH, i don't understand what you mean by losing their fine leaf form?

It seems to me they still look finer compared to rubra. Since rosita = stricta then i'm getting confuse when you said that. It's leaves are certainly much finer just that when it matures it grows bigger. Hmmm.. :unsure:/>
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#23 User is offline   greenhorn 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 12:40 PM

benetay,

I mean some ionantha rosita grown in my condition, the newer leaves that grow seems to be thicker, making it difficult to identify it if it was not labelled. Furthermore, the pup it produces sometimes also do not look like its mum, instead it look like an ionantha rubra.

i have edited post #21 from " ionantha does not have a habit" to "ionantha does have a habit". Too early, still a bit blur.

This post has been edited by greenhorn: 07 January 2010 - 12:42 PM

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#24 User is offline   benetay 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 03:50 PM

I certainly understand the notion when you explained that the pup does not resemble the parents at all. What is conclusive however is that once the pup is made know to be like rubra, then i think that the growing condition may be different from the parents. Hence, the pup given the right condition, grows out to be what it should be.

Having said that, there are some that continue to resemble their parents after the pup is produce. GF have some of the var. stricta that continues to have the same parentage form after pupping. The fine leaves is not as obvious when first purchase but there is a clear indication from one look. The leaves are definitely finer as compared to rubra. The thinning of the leaves continue throughout from the base, which gave as a clear indication from a rubra. It can get quite messy at times and trying to categorize it as a particular name proves to be difficult. Well that's the fun in ID-ing isn't it?

Cheers!

This post has been edited by benetay: 07 January 2010 - 03:58 PM

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#25 User is offline   benetay 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 07:59 PM

As promised. There are some limitations of growing var. stricta out in the open, as they do very much better indoor with cooler temperature but not sacrificing light.

All these var. stricta are 3-4 generation ones so as to make sure the parentage are being passed down.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/benetillandsia3/ionanthavarstricta.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/benetillandsia3/varstricta2.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/benetillandsia3/varstricta.jpg

Vs.

rubra
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/benetillandsia3/rubracvionantha.jpg

Notice the difference? Rubra's leaf do not narrow down into a thin line. The last 3-4 Cm of a rubra ends quickly whereas the last 3-4 cm of a var. stricta holds the similar fine leaf structure towards the end. When look from top down, a var. stricta does not have fatter leaves when compared to a rubra.

Gosh, they downgrade my picture quality, now it looks like _ _ _ _. (fill in the blanks)

Anyway, there are some rubras that have finer leaves but still does not have the discerning characteristic of the var. stricta.
Here is one ionantha that is blooming now as a good comparison to the normal big and fat rubra. Finer leaves.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/benetillandsia3/rubraflower3.jpg

From top down it can be seen that the last 3-4 cm of the leaves still does not resembles the var. stricta. A var. stricta cannot grow to become a rubra. Same goes to human, i can't be you. :)/>

Taking this opportunity to share another ionantha rubra bloom.
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/benetillandsia3/rubraflower.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/benetillandsia3/rubraflower2.jpg

I hope this give a clearer picture of the difference between var. stricta and rubra. If i'm not mistaken, var. stricta grows much slower and is slightly more difficult to bloom compared to rubra, which blooms non-stop. I'm not surprised when people tell me that their stricta don't do particularly well. Their leaves gave an indication that they dislike heat.

Cheers!

This post has been edited by benetay: 07 January 2010 - 07:59 PM

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#26 User is offline   benetay 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 08:12 PM

View Postgreenhorn, on Jan 7 2010, 05:39 AM, said:

ionantha does have a habit of changing its form when grown in different locations.
Sometimes ionantha peanut "open up" instead of looking pointed when grown locally over some time. peanut offspring also has this tendency.
ionantha rosita loses it beautiful fine leaves form after a while.
but they are all still nice.


What we can do to ensure their closure of the leaves is to prevent over watering. Whenever we try soaking a tilly, they open up fully. I believe this might have a correlation with water and pointy.

I'll give it less water to prevent it from opening up permanently. From some of those 'open' peanuts that i have, they're usually located where water is given copiously whereas those that remains sharp and pointy are given high air circulation with less watering. Another way is to hang them upside down where water will not be kept in the 'cup' to prevent them from 'opening' up when stipulated in rain.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/benetillandsia3/peanutclumpy.jpg

http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss322/bendanorchid/ionanthapeanut.jpg
Got this as a 2 pc ionantha clump in 2004 after going through past photos to confirm the date. Wow a long time ago.

Ionantha var. stricta forma fasigiata aka Peanut blooms really slowly and requires a cool night temperature drop to induce bloom in local condition. When it reaches maturity, bringing into a cool air conditional area for a month before putting it back to where it belongs may induce bloom in 4-6 weeks. However, it is also required that watering is cut back and increased light to support the inducement.

Cheers!

This post has been edited by benetay: 08 October 2010 - 07:53 PM

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#27 User is offline   Pomeranian 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 08:39 PM

Is Ionantha Selecta a cultivar or hybrid?It is missed out from the list.Thanks.
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#28 User is offline   benetay 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 08:50 PM

View PostPomeranian, on Jan 7 2010, 08:39 PM, said:

Is Ionantha Selecta a cultivar or hybrid?It is missed out from the list.Thanks.


That's a nursery name. Not registered in the Bromeliad society. Thanks for pointing out, as i've kept that selecta before.

Cheers!
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#29 User is offline   benetay 

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 09:00 PM

Maybe should start a list of unregistered ionantha. Starting with:

Selecta
Curly giant
Aurea grandis
Albino
Albo marginata <-- should be renate but nursery don't go by Renate.
fuego totem pole
Hazel nut <-- After research & discussion with Uncle D and GH, we believe that it might be Haselnuss, which is a cv. of ionantha
fuego 'giant form'
fuego 'alba' <-- if fuego alba, the flowers is white and the leaves should remain fiery red.
peach 'white form' <-- :hysterical:/> sounds like Durian 'orange flavour'
peanut 'giant form' <-- :unsure:/>
variegata

Some of them in due time MAY be registered, some will continue to be unregistered not because nobody register.

Cheers!
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#30 User is offline   Vincent Yap 

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 01:53 PM

My T. ionantha flowered today.....

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s296/Vincent_Yap/DSCF0897.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s296/Vincent_Yap/DSCF0899.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s296/Vincent_Yap/DSCF0898.jpg
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#31 User is offline   Mejo 

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 02:57 PM

I've got Ionantha var. stricta and also Rosita but strangely, they look different. I'm not sure if perhaps the former has been mislabelled. It got fine leaves, more fine than rubra but the Rosita is even more fine and looks red even when not blooming. It used to be very closed up but recently the Rosita has 'opened up'. i thought that was because it is going to bloom, but there's no sign of blooming for months. Strange.
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#32 User is offline   benetay 

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 03:05 PM

Mejo, i don't have a direct answer for you, but i can offer some insights into this. Firstly, the collection point might be different. ionantha Mexico, Guatemala, etc looks a bit different due to type locality. Chinese from China and Singaporean Chinese are Chinese but due to locality differences, the discerning differences can be told. Hence, type locality does not differentiate them into another species, but making them look slightly different. However, under the eye of the taxonomist, they're classified as one, regardless if fried rice was done in the hawker or 5 star hotel.

Another note to consider is that you might want to know where the type locality was originated. e.g ionantha var. stricta 'Guatemala' or ionantha var. stricta 'Mexico', 'panama', 'Columbia' if they exist. That way, the tags still highlight the same name but segregated to different locality.

Hope this helps.

I have known of collectors that differentiate their tags into various smaller segment in order to better classify them. There isn't much noticeable differences for us, but to them it makes a whole lot different. Imagine, ionantha var. stricta 'orchard road', 'scotts road', 'sims ave', 'broadway street' or something like that. Of cause they're not as simple as it sound because orchard road stricta might have cross pollinated to sims ave and making it into stricta var. 'orch-cotts'. Is there any differences? To the taxonomist, not really, but to a collector it may be different. So it depends on where & how much you would like to differentiate the species. First cut is done usually by type locality, then noticeable differences, then mountain ranges, then valleys and so on. So a tag can read ionantha var. stricta 'Singapore' from Orchard road. If a certain noticeable variation is found in a small area, then it can read ionantha var. stricta 'Singapore' from orchard road - Ion orchard. So now we not only include it's name but also include where it can be found upon closer inspection. It gives a whole new meaning to a tag in a way, but certainly not for the faint heart.

Then again, we must ask ourselves if the seller of the plant did gave credible information on the tag or did they brush us off with a location? Usually most nursery grown plants are massively named across the board and sometimes with a keen eye, the difference can be spotted. Then again, how do anyone really know or have the capability to trace it back to the origin? Difficult isn't it. Hence, nurseries normally don't do that, leaving these meticulous task to the people in charge of naming them. Yes there are a whole range of people doing all these naming, but they're not registered because it does not warrant as a different species!

Try that on for size!

Cheers!

This post has been edited by benetay: 08 January 2010 - 04:38 PM

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#33 User is offline   Mejo 

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 05:43 PM

Oh wait, actually I think I may have an answer to my own question. Actually Rosita is a cultivar's name whereas Var. stricta is a variety's name, a particular ionantha variant. By right, cultivars should only be named for that one and single plant and all its future direct offsprings, i.e. must be genetically the same. Whereas all other similar variants should be called var. stricta. So Rosita is a var. stricta but not all var. strictas are Rosita.
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#34 User is offline   benetay 

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 05:50 PM

According to the registrar, what we commonly understood 'Rosita' cv. of ionantha is now known as ionantha var. stricta. It was updated on 2006. So there is no 'Rosita' anymore as the taxonomist has decided that they're the same afterall. (There goes my money! All these darn taxonomist!! If i knew they were the same back in '02 i would have saved some money!) How many i have now? I dare not count. :hysterical:/>

Hope that helps.

Cheers!

p.s Good thinking Mejo, maybe some day those people who prevented me from saving money may decide to split them again. You don't know them seriously, not the first time thou.

This post has been edited by benetay: 08 January 2010 - 05:52 PM

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#35 User is offline   benetay 

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 07:07 PM

Had chance to take a better picture today. A close up too.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/benetillandsia3/ionantharubra.jpg

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/benetillandsia3/closeup.jpg


Cheers!

This post has been edited by benetay: 08 January 2010 - 09:57 PM

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#36 User is offline   benetay 

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 09:56 PM

Written by Derek Butcher

I don’t know if you realised that if you had been growing this plant in 1889 you would have called it T. ionantha but in the period from 1935 to 1941 you would have called it T. erubescens. You see Mez got a bit confused with T. erubescens sensu Schlechtendahl and T. erubescens sensu Wendland. We never get confused about names do we? And we never have the same name for two different things!
I would stick out my neck and say this is the most popular Tillandsia under cultivation and I say this because it is one of the few that grows well in Singapore and SE Asia as well as Cairns.
There are many forms or varieties to look at as well as Cultivar names and other names. First we will look at what the taxonomists have provided us with.
Type illustration
Scopus – like a brush
Scans
First we had Lyman Smith who gave us
T. ionantha var ionantha photo
T. ionantha var vanhyningii photo
T. ionantha var scaposa. Here we have a problem because in 1981 Walter Till described his first Tillandsia and called it T. kolbii. It had very limited distribution near Copala in Oaxaca, Mexico but Harry Luther saw it as the same as var scaposa with a wide distribution in Guatemala, San Salvador and Costa Rica and because it had a higher rank called all the var. scaposa by the species name T. kolbii. I will show you photos of these plants which shows them having traits that can be used to tell them apart. Renate Ehlers led the charge to prove them separate species and in 2009 with a bit of help from me we raised var scaposa to specific rank
While here we may as well se T. delicata

The next to come along was T. ionantha var zebrina in 1982 by Bert Foster having been found in Guatemala. 11 years later it was decided by Harry that it did not warrant varietal status. In 2002 I decided it should not be in limbo-land and added it to the Cultivar Register as T. ‘Zebrina’

In 1993 Pam Koide decided to bite the bullet regarding the various forms of T. ionantha that were being offered in the trade. One that she was aware of, did come from an area near El Camaron in Oaxaca, Mexico and needed a formal varietal name. It had been sold in the trade as ‘Stricta’ as well as ‘Rosita’. So Tillandsia var stricta came into being. In the same collection area there were plants that had a peculiar trait that was transmitted by seed and had been given the apt name of ‘Peanuts’ To the uninitiated this is fastigiate or a narrow elongated habit and so Tillandsia ionantha var. stricta forma fastigiata came into being.

In 2000 Renate Ehlers described T. ionantha var maxima from near Huamelula, Oaxaca, Mexico. Previously from about 1990 this had been grown as ‘Huamelulah’
It grows on lava rocks on the west coast of Oaxaca. The plants are very large in comparison to the typical species. A single specimen can be 3-4 inches in diameter. It has beautiful green leaves, forming a symmetrical rosette. During anthesis it turns a vivid pink-orange color, and produces large purple flowers.

Let us now look at those with cultivar names
`Apretado’ by P Koide in J Brom Soc 43: 163. 1993
Appears to be a variation of the Mexican T. ionantha var. ionantha. I have on occasion, found specimens of it growing in Mexico. They seem to grow larger than the typical species, and the leaves are succulent, slightly stiffer and more erect. They grow quite large as they are reluc¬tant to bloom. Was this named by Isley?
`Cone Head' by P Koide in J Brom Soc 43: 163. 1993
Another large cultivar of T. ionantha. Its origin is not known to Pam Koide but seems to be a nurseryman’s name used by Tillandsia International of California
‘Druid’ by Eloise Beach in J Brom Soc 34: 19. 1984
About fourteen years ago, Drew Schulz of Fort Lauderdale, Florida, collected a large quantity of Tillandsia ionantha near the city of Vera Cruz, Mexico. Nothing un¬usual appeared until 1971 when Drew was surprised to find a plant that turned bright yel¬low in the center and produced flowers with white petals , in contrast with the plant that blushes red and has violet flowers (the name ionantha refers to the color violet). One by one, more of the unusual yellow plants appeared in that original group until six were found. Those six were given lots of tender loving care.
The cultivar name, "Druid' was selected to give an aura of mystery, while incor¬porating the collector's name.
When not in bloom, T. ionantha `Druid' looks like the common ionantha: it is a miniature rosette, only two-three inches tall, and the leaves are covered with silvery
scales. It should be mounted, not potted, and can be grown in shady to nearly full sun locations. Spring is the usual blooming time.
While Tillandsia ionantha has many different sizes and shapes, few tillandsias in bloom command more admira¬tion. Now, T. ionantha `Druid' joins this variety-filled group and introduces a strikingly dif¬ferent color. Nature is full of surprises!
`Fuego' by P Koide in J Brom Soc 43: 163. 1993.
Another variation sold by Guatemalan nurseries, is red throughout its life, but differs from the Mexican T. ionantha var. stricta in that the leaf blades are somewhat stiffer and more upright. The rosette is closed. It has purple flowers.I do not know its distribution. Chris Larson comment When I visited the Bromeliifolia Nursery on the Pacific Coast, Kurt Meyer Jnr at one stage pointed to the rise in one direction (which I assumed was west) and said the coast line was just over the rise. If that was west, he
then pointed north and said "Fuego grows just over there". I assumed that
this meant just outside the confines of the huge shadecloth growing area
that we were standing in.
`Hand Grenade' by P Koide in J Brom Soc 43: 163. 1993
A very large form of T. ionantha which resembles a hand grenade. According to Dennis Cathcart, this form is from Honduras and appears to have indeterminate growth. It is a sparse bloomer and occasionally will crest.
‘Haselnuss’ name used in Germany - ?’Peanut’
‘Huamelula’ = v. maxima
`Peach' by P Koide in J Brom Soc 43: 163. 1993
A variation found near Taxco, Mexico. It is more typ¬ical of the species T. ionantha var. ionantha in size. The leaves are pale green until the plant blooms. Then they turn peach. The leaves are also softer than the typical species. It also produces purple flowers.
‘Peanut’ = v. stricta fa. fastigiata
‘Penito’ large form similar to ‘Apretado’, from Bromelifolia, Guatemala
‘Pink Champagne’ ionantha x Druid by Nev Ryan
‘Renate’ variegated form Very popular with those from SE Asia where they want to use all manner of names
‘Rosita’ = v. stricta
`Rubra' by P Koide in J Brom Soc 43: 163. 1993
This name is used to describe a cultivar of T. ionantha sold by Guatemalan nurseries. It has semi-succulent green leaves, which recurve from an open rosette. When it blooms it turns a light pink-rose color, and has purple flowers. I do not know the exact distribution of this plant.
‘Small Mexican’ from Alfredo Lau in the early 1990’s and widespread at least in Australia & New Zealand. As the name implies, flowers when quite small. Named by Chris Larson
Zebrina = a cultivar with light cross markings on the leaves

re post, awaiting pin.

This post has been edited by benetay: 08 January 2010 - 10:15 PM

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#37 User is offline   greenhorn 

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 11:06 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/greenhorn76/ionanthavangyii.jpg
ionantha van hyngii do very well in singapore. Can take direct sunlight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/greenhorn76/ionanthavanhyngii.jpg
side view. they bloom easily too.

This post has been edited by greenhorn: 08 January 2010 - 11:08 PM

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#38 User is offline   greenhorn 

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 11:10 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/greenhorn76/ionanthahandgrenade1600x450.jpg
used to have many ionantha hand grenade, but sold many of them. cannot take too strong sunlight. leaves are very compact, so need very good ventilation to ensure the plant dries well after watering. i find it not as easy as most of the other ionantha
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#39 User is offline   benetay 

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 11:12 PM

I find Hand grenade the easiest! Give it bright shade, ample watering and no direct sunlight. Preferred to be hung in any direction other then upwards.

Another note for van hyn is to water them lesser to make them have short leaves and compact them into a rosette. Otherwise they'll open up.




Cheers!

This post has been edited by benetay: 08 January 2010 - 11:19 PM

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#40 User is offline   greenhorn 

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 11:13 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/greenhorn76/ionanthahybrid.jpg
victoria giant form. does extremely well in singapore. very robust growth and very prolific. great form!
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